Another example of two morons who think laws and rules do not apply to them. Not much will happen to you but both of you will have to live with this for the rest of your lives.

This was in poor taste.

Why? If these two idiots who shouldn't have been in lane at that time, this accident would not have happend.

what happened

I misread you. I thought you were talking about the driver of the van.



A van full of kids had a breakdown, and pulled over into the HOV. While pulled over they were hit by a vehicle with a single occupant, which pushed them into another vehicle in the HOV with only a single occupant. Several of the kids have since died.

The southbound HOV lane toward the tunnel to Steveston Hwy is always being used by non HOVs.

Often during rush hour the RCMP tickets one vehicle after the other there.

They should not do that , we all should also not speed , but we all do - are we -are you - a 'moron' because of that?

However, everybody learns and knows , when your car gives trouble to pull over to the right shoulder .

In this case , the driver stops in a dedicated , de facto high speed lane (everybody speeds there) , it is inevitable that

an other vehicle would plow into it , HOV or not.

A very tragic event , but to shift the blame where it does not belong, serves no purpose at all.

So you think it's okay to use the hov lane on your own, and break the speed limit in it - just because everyone else does?

The speed limit is there for a frigging reason...



Speak for yourself



No.. it makes you an A$$HOLE who doesnt care about the safety of others... Sure endanger your own life.. just dont endanger mine.


BTW : Yes i realised i took it off topic.. there's no evidence yet the people using the hov lane were speeding. I just get angry with dicks like the above..

This post has been edited by smelly: Dec 1 2008, 10:36 PM

...Were these kids from Vancouver? it sure sounds like it.

There's so many little assholes, almost always teenage boys who pull those kinds of stunts on our roads here. Attitude, power thing to think they could defy authority and push their weight around. Stop their vehicles in the road as if they're sticking their ass in yer face.

The little punks probably thought they were in some English country downtown street where everyone would politely stop for them. I see that happen all the time in Vancouver. But Stop in a non-stop lane where the average speed is 60 mph? That's suicide. I never did stuff like that when I was their age.

Play stupid games on the highway, pay the price. No sympathy. Sorry.

perhaps the van had no option but to stop where it was due to the break down perhaps he was unable to coast it off to the far right many things are possible and perhaps we are jumping and laying blame on what may be in all reality nothing more than a very tragic accident. may the family of the children find some solace with their loved ones this week. i find my heart saddened at the loss of people i don't even know. perhaps cause of the reality of how fragile life is...

Erm.. As a brit - i feel the need to correct you there..

In england the speed limit on main roads (i.e. downtown) is 60mph.. and on freeways 70mph (most people do around 100mph)

So no.. in england people wouldnt politely stop for them.. Englands roads are MUCH faster than here.. but the quality of the roads are much much better (proper drainage for example), so it's safer to go faster...

.. erm.. sorry.. taken it off topic again...

Why are you trying to put words into people's mouth? I merely stated undeniable facts.

That did not require a santimonious lecture on your part .

The speed factor does not adress the issue of culpability of the tragic accident in question.

Oh, I just happened to know one of the ciy planners who was highly instrumental in bringing in all these dead end streets in DT Vancouver. He was from England. I went to his funeral. In his eulogy they talked extensively of his lobbying to put in all those roundabouts, detours to create a more homey neighborhood. I thought that's where he got the idea from. England. After visiting Heathrow Airport, I was convinced he got the idea from there.

I dont know what planet you're coming from, but anybody who has travelled that Lougheed Highway stretch to Coquitlam or

Hwy 99 south toward the tunnel , drives faster than the posted speed , often wayyyy faster , even trucks.

Actually, it is often the 'crawler' who endagers the flow of traffic .


Nowhere did I state that the two involved vehicles were speeding. I have said that most vehicles in HOV lane are speeding.

All the more reason not to 'park' your incapacitated vehicle in that lane.

Regarding the impossibility of driving onto the right shoulder due to a mechanical problem , you paint a very hypothetical picture.
Unless a vehicle stops suddenly dead in the raod , it can lose power , hesitates or gives other warning symptoms . In any event , even if the motor dies , the vehicle has plenty of momentum left to pull over to the right side , even more so when it still is under power , however poorly.


So true.

Unruly motorists not giving way to a vehicle trying to change lanes slower than the speed limit are a very distinct possibility. It can be hard enough to change lanes in Vancouver with power.

NO d!ck head..

Its the people who are driving too fast who cant stop quick enough who are endangering people.. not the people who are driving the speed limit

Thus (probably - i dont have all the facts yet) this horrible thing happened.


.. Roads in and around vancouver are SH!T! ... They are NOT safe enough for people to be driving at excessive speeds on (ESPECIALLY when wet - as it is now). I'm not apologizing.. I think anyone who drives over the speed limit on these roads is a complete D!CK with no respect for other peoples safety.

What you say is academically correct, what he says is true.

My $.02

You seem to run quickly out of real life arguments and instead seek refuge to sanctimonious rants.

Traffic flow permitting , ALL drivers on all main arteries drive faster than the posted speed. This is a called the flow of traffic.

You will not get pulled over or ticketed if you are within the flow of traffic , which , when free flowing ,is usually 10klicks faster than the posted speed.

An undeniable fact of life.
(The only exception are newcomers in new luxury or driving school vehicles.)


If you are a motorist in the lower mainland , you yourself drive all the time faster than 50KM , to deny it would be an idotic lie.

So stop your prosyletising that nobody believes anyway and stop your infantile name calling.







This post has been edited by heinzy: Dec 2 2008, 02:40 AM

I think we are losing the point here in all this bickering back and forth.
Two boys have died, a family is in ruins and a tragic event took place.
Blessings to the family and friends of the lost loved ones.

This post has been edited by Tiger the Lion: Dec 2 2008, 07:31 AM

I've already appologised for taking it off topic.. and i agree with you.. i just cant stand idiots like the above who think it's "okay" to drive unsafely... Next they'll be telling me its okay to drive if you've only "had a few" drinks (because "everyone does it")

I think where that HOV starts there really isn't much room on the right shoulder and the driver of the van with the kids must have thought (mistakenly) that it would be safer to pull into the HOV Lane. He/She really should have pulled over to the right shoulder and put on the emergency lights - gotten the children out of the vehicle and away from the freeway just in case.

Yes, the person who hit them should not have been a lone occupant. Nor should he have been speeding. However, if there had been more people in his vehicle and he had been going the speed limit, he likely still would have hit the van because he was not expecting there to be a vehicle stopped in the roadway. Even at regular speeds, the collision would have been bad.

He's not saying it's ok. He's saying it is what it is.

All I know is that 2 children are dead and another in serious condition I just can't imagine the horror that the family must feel Attention: REGISTER / LOGIN to view the image!

When these rebels do what they want and feel the rules don't apply to them they are driving fast all the time in the HOV with their stupid head on a swivel looking out. Apparently other vehicles saw this family and moved out of the way. I feel horrible for the family and don't give a dam what happens to the two other drivers. Rot in hell for all I care.

Charge 'em with hit and run causing death is about the best we can do.

the HOV out here is open after rush hour. but that sucks but why not try to get off the road the hov is a bad spot to be even with hazzards on they had little chance of seeing the van broken down and stopping or getting out of the lane.

My guess is the driver didn't have a chance to get off the road, sometimes you don'l get to pick a place to brake down.
The last time I broke down it was during rush hour trying to turn left. Attention: REGISTER / LOGIN to view the image!
My car blocked all the traffic but I was lucky as their as a cop their in less then a minute. Attention: REGISTER / LOGIN to view the image!

That is a good point Nat and partially explains the actions of the van driver. However, it seems to me the easiest thing to do would be to pull off to the right. Not sure which lane of the freeway they were in. If they were in the left lane it would have been a difficult decision to make. My point is, that the speed limit on the freeway is not a slow speed. It is 90 in most spots. Therefore, the accident would likely have been terrible even if those who hit the van had been travelling at the legal speed limit.

Issues such as the weather and visibility have to be considered as well. Often, I have travelled on the freeway and will see vehicles pulled over at the very last minute and I just curse these people for not having their lights on, for being stopped there etc. I've seen people running or walking across the freeway in the dark in the rain wearing dark clothing.

Generally, people overestimate the likelihood that they will be seen in time for the oncoming traffic to avoid hitting them.

The van that pulled over should have immediately put on as many lights in/on the vehicle as possible and gotten everyone out of the vehicle. This would have been the right thing to do. It's called defensive driving.

How many times have I ridden with people who will do things like pull out in front of someone signalling assuming that that vehicle is turning. Then when I say, you should have waited until you could see they really were turning, they will say, well if they were signalling then they should have been turning - this completely fails to take into consideration the chance of human error in that sometimes people forget to turn off their signal lights.

So, pulling off into the HOV lane and relying on other drivers to all be doing the right thing - i.e., to be paying strict attention to the road, to be travelling the speed limit (though in this case a crash at the speed limit would have been just as bad anyway) is irresponsible and a poor judgment call on the part of the driver of the van.

I'm sorry, but being the 'victim' in such an accident does not make the victim right necessarily. Unfortunately it is the children who ulitmately suffered the consequences of poor decision making of adults.