Has anyone done this before? Just wondering...

More details?

Do a google search, bad headache here, but it is a seminar that is suppose to enrich your life and make you a better person but they are basically a brainwashing type of system that involves taking many courses and paying $$$$ and if you don't continue you (by their definition) will not be successful at life.

Agreed. I showed up for a meeting because of friend had encouraged me to show up. Talk about high-pressure. Near the end, all the members who had brought guests were told flat out (in front of the audience) that now was the time to do everything they could to convince us and not let us leave without committing. Luckily my friend was not an asshat so we just sat and talked about whatever but around the room it got very weird.

They were extremely convincing and the pressure to sign up "right now" was intense.Ah, they also encourage folks to sign up their children for classes (without talking to the kids about it first of course). My advice is steer clear.

It's interesting that all the people who replied and gave advice haven't actually done it. 

The fact is that you should do it if you're looking for ways to enrich your life beyond what everyone tells you is the norm.  Yes, they pressure you into buying more classes, but it's a business like any other.  If you live your life avoiding pressure or stress of any kind, what kind of life do you end up with?  A boring one.  I say do it, you'll not regret it.

"If you live your life avoiding pressure or stress of any kind, what kind of life do you end up with?  A boring one"

I can't believe this person is actually trying to justify and rationalize the shameful way Landmark tries to force people into joining their group. And when I say force, I mean force!! The recruiting strategies at Landmark make used car salesmen look like baby ducklings! You'll be pressured like you've never been pressured before. And not just by one person: at Landmark, they pratice "gang pressure".

The fact is that I took the Landmark forum 8 years ago and one of the reasons I left was because of the way they ran their recruitment program - pressure, pressure and more pressure. They even offered training on how to pressure and convince everyone in your life to join, whether it was your family, friends, car mechanic, hairstylist or anyone else.  It really turned me off. After a while I came to realize that even though Landmark presents itself as a philanthropic organization with your interests at heart, their top priority is money and making lots of it.

Having said all this, I will say I benefited from the forum but I also recognize there are other ways to achieve the same benefits: read Dr. Phil, read other self-help books (go to the bookstore, there are tons of them), or you can rent "What the Bleep Do You Know" and watch it a couple of times.

So even though I benefited from Landmark, I would not recommend joining. If I knew then what I know now, I would have opted for the above recommendations.

For some people, Landmark changes their lives, for some it does nothing and for others they become hostile towards it. Surveys on Landmark's website show a 90% satisfaction rate. As a former member I find that hard to believe. I  don't have the stats - I'm just saying its' hard to believe. In my opinion that stat would carry more weight if it was compiled by an independent source.

Landmark is for chumps.

"It's interesting that all the people who replied and gave advice haven't actually done it"
- Actually done it

"You can get a good look at a t-bone by sticking your head up a bull's ass, but wouldn't you rather take the butcher's word for it?
-Chris Farley

This sounds like it would be a program of the folks at Scientology ?

Landmark:

"Scientology's evil little brother"

Landmark Forum is:
*a brainwashing seminar
*a pyramid scheme (legal because the labor is volunteered)
*group pressure/peer pressure
*skilled at harrasement
*a 'targeted marketing coorperation' (believe it, those are their own words!)
*going to target YOU
*a neighborhood nightmare
*a social epidemic
*yes it IS a cult for the enthusiastic
*empty rhetoric
*a salesman that YOU pay to solicite YOU
*secretly writting down any information you share during the forum in order to solicite you in the future
*full of real estate agents, car salesmen, loan officers, travel agents and more who are WATCHING YOU (and taking notes)- don't worry they'll introduce themselves as new friends at a later date once they know what your interests are. They are the ones who will help you purchase, oops I mean realize your true potential
*not your friend
*bastardized philosophy and social science
*scripted
*owned by the former board members of EST
*a more 'polished' and up to date version of EST
*required to have you sign a consent release form because of all those messy suicide lawsuits back in the seventies and eighties during the EST version
*not therapy
*sneaky
*insidious
*a snake oil salesman with a friendly face
*full of ------ (fill in the blank) rhetorical logic riddled word games that give you that warm 'I got it!' feeling
*a really bad idea
*a family and friend 'divider' not 'uniter'
*encouraging spouses NOT to tell their spouses what happened during the seminar
*a really really expensive weekend, or more
*psycologically dangerous
*full of feel good fluff
*full of feel bad stuff
*wants you, your family, your friends, and your friends friends to sign up
*wants YOU to recruit them, free of charge- because intra personal relationships are the marketing mechanism of the future, oops, I mean TODAY
*a class rate con job
*not an accredited educational organization
*affects more people then you would ever guess
*fools 90% of them- and that's good business
*an amazing business model because they pay NO ONE except the 'Leader' and owners and venue. Imagine that 'Leader' walking away with $10,000-$30,000 a weekend.
*definetely not harmless psycobabble
*programs devotees to use Landmark jargon which creates a covert Landmark sales pitch that they will consciously and subconsciously use everyday on everyone they know
*lying to you
*using fancy diagrams
*and confusion
*profiling you from the moment you walk in the door
*going to give you a name tag with a secret profile number 1-5 in order to best 'market' you
*may be government sponsored or condoned in order to help keep the economy spending in these trouble times (because dollar bills don't do uncle sam any good getting stale under the mattress)
*feels like church, gone to HELL
*not going out of business any time soon
*a business designed for salespeople to circumvent the national "Do not call list"
*going to get your phone number and keep calling, and calling, and calling, and calling you
*MINDCONTROL- and no, it does not require wires or implants- just changing someones choice of words is how they start the snowball rolling
*did I mention a really REALLY bad idea to get involved with?

Open yourself to the possibility that con-men can wear nice suits and shiny shoes too. Remember that you are not allowed to take notes (but the salespeople in the back of the room are). Rackets? Lets keep the discussion on YOUR rackets, not Landmarks please. If you leave to go the bathroom you might break the trance of confusion and group brainwash, so you'd better return to your seat at once if you want to get 'it'. They just want to help you have a 'clearing'. When your wallet is thoroughly cleared and the real estate agent, I mean new 'friend', has sold you a condemned building in the bad part of town that no one else wants, then you will truly know you've gotten 'it'. You may proceed to the next level. Sign here. Oh, and open your wallet please.

Hope I saved someone $400 and several friendships

what the hell did you think you were going there for? haven't you ever seen an infomercial? plus they're using their technique of aggressive attitude and behaviour to actually sell their program. i've never been to an introductory session or to the program but i could have told you that that would be their recruitment technique  quit being so naive and whiny.  figure out what you're getting into by googling for 2 minutes ahead of time instead of whining and complaining  

Just the very fact that there is so much negative literature on Landmark should be enough to make people stay away:

Check out some published articles which are available on-line: Pay Money, Be Happy (New York Magazine, 2001); Tune Up, Tune In, Transform?;The Cult of Fashion (New York Times,2005) Defending Your Life (GQ Magazine, May 2005);Drive Thru Deliverance (Phoenix New Times, 2000);The EST of Friends;Do You Believe in Miracles? (Elle Magazine, 1998);In the Grip of the Therapy Tough-Guys, NOW Magazine (2000).

Here's a good article: http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=30430.

Here are a couple of excerpts: "Psychologists and psychiatrists have extensively studied both the methodologies and the effects of cult brainwashing in its many forms, throughout the 20th century and into the new millennium. Landmark uses a particular brainwashing technique called “thought reform.”...Thirty minutes dedicated to a couple of online search engines can produce a laundry list of anti-cult and cult watchdog organizations that believe Landmark is definitely a cult. There are even organizations like ReFoCuS Network -- the Recovering Former Cult Survivors Network -- which has a chapter devoted to people who have escaped from the Landmark cult and are now recovering from the damage inflicted in that time with Landmark. Why would this exist if Landmark were not a cult?" For further reading, check out: The Apologetics Index - apologeticsindex.org (Christian), The Watchman Fellowship (Christian), American Family Foundation (the world's largest, secular counter-cult org.),The Cultic Studies Journal , The Cult Awareness Network , The Swiss Cult Advisory Organization, Dienst für Analyse und Prävention (Service for Analysis and Prevention, a German org.), Project Outreach."

Also, check out the Cult Awareness websites in the US, UK, New Zealand, Australia, Israel, Germany, Switzerland and France (just do a Google search using key words “cult” + "Landmark" and the country). They all warn people against getting mixed up with Landmark. 

Landmark has ceased operations in France, Switzerland and Sweden mostly due to bad publicity. In Sweden, a reporter did the Forum with a hidden camera and exposed Landmark in two TV-programs. After that their new client base dried up and they closed down. Similar thing in France: a French reporter went under cover and worked within Landmark for 6 months. After TV-coverage Landmark closed up shop. Not sure what happened in Switzerland but Landmark shut down there too. Landmark also stopped operating in Munich, Germany but still exists in other German cities.

What we need here and in the US is W5, 5th Estate, Market Place, 60 Minutes, 20/20, Dateline NBC or a like-minded documentary series to go undercover and investigate these creeps. Gemmologist, we should start a letter/email writing campaign to these shows.

Visit these sites: www.assaultedthoughts/cults/landmarkvsestandscientology. Also try www.cultnews.com. And: www.ex-cult.org/Groups/Landmark/

See what ordinary everyday people think about Landmark. There’s tons of blogs and message boards out there, lots of people will tell you what a scam Landmark is. But of course there are others who will say Landmark is beneficial to them.

Here’s what someone said about Landmark: "My son has gone through the program, and is now sitting in a hopital under psychiatric care. Where are they when their program goes bad? They don't want anything to do with him! Afraid of the lawsuit maybe. this is not an isolated incident - it happens often - there are many cases where it has ended in murder and/or suicide."

From another blog: "The big SUCK about Landmark is the "guest conversation". This is also called "sharing". Unfortunately, every Landmark course I've taken spent about 30% of its time talking about inviting friends (guests) to check out Landmark. It's a big thing inside of Landmark. The number of guests you bring directly reflects on the capability of the course leader. It's one of the statistics they use to determine how successful a course leader is. Now, you can see that this is a useful statistic if the organization is all about making money. But an organization that is more concerned about its participants than its profit shouldn't be using this to gauge how well the course went-- it should use something to do with what the participants accomplished, perhaps the particular goals they set out for themselves at the beginning of the course. I can't emphasize enough how significant this is inside of Landmark. It makes sense when you look at the origin of the education-- it was derived from the sales techniques used by Werner Erhard to improve the abilities of his book-selling sales team."

The best site of all is www.rickross.com. There is a message board with a subtitle “LARGE GROUP AWARENESS TRAINING” with harrowing stories of Landmark survivors that would shock you. They describe how Landmark powerfully controls you to get your money. You could spend hours on that site alone reading about Landmark. Also try www.rickross.com/groups/landmark.html

An interesting and informative article on the subject: http://skepdic.com/landmark.html
apparently Landmark is responsible for a number of mental and physical breakdowns.

See what anti-cultist Steven Hassan says about Landmark - his articles are on-line. So are Andy Testa's too. They'll give you the low-down on Landmark.

And just like Scientology, Landmark's lawyers go running around threatening lawsuits against anyone or any websites that criticize their group. Not much for free speech in Landmark, is there? I guess they got something to hide. They tried to sue Rick Ross but they withdrew their own lawsuit. You can see the details at www.cultnews.com.

As I mentioned earlier, think about it, with all this severe criticism on Landmark, there has to be something wrong with it.

Save yourself from this plague.

Cult Buster - I am with you on your journalistic campaigns and drumming up the media into investigating Landmark Forum.  At best, this superficial organization should be exposed and I believe the media can lend an intrepid hand into doing this.  Forum is crap and an obvious lie to anyone who has common sense regarding basic principals of phillosophy, psychology or the communicative arts.  I am most certainly with you on this one!  After all, we have a voice and a right to use it.  Please get in touch with me.

Anymore comments on Forum?  I, too, have witnessed my friends falling aprt after attending their seminars. They came away with seriously debased confidence issues. What kind of a seminar promises to help you feel better when in actuality these people walked away feeling worse?  Bye the way, they are both now on Prozac and consulting psychiatrists. Seems to me they should have done that in the first place, rather than waste over a thousand dollars on these greedy marketing f****s.  Now, my two friends feel alot better since seeing the doctors... those that PROFESSIONALLY HELP! Forum sucks!!

Hey Folks,

  I did the "forum"  in March this year.   It was pretty interesting....but honestly it is a lot like scientology.  They won't tell you this, but the person who started landmark was HUGE into scientology in the 70's, specializing in LGAT (large group awareness training.) He studied scientology for a long time, changed his name, stopped being a car salesman, and then made up a new motivational "technololgy" called Landmark.  I can't spell his name correctly, but it's Werner Erhardt or something thereof.  You can find him on wikipedia and learn all about him.

Motivational and life-changing classes I think are all bullsh#t.  The reason I think this is because every human is the same, even motivational speakers, landmark forum leaders, and whoever else.  We all want to be great and live great lives and be loved.  Those who sell "self betterment" are pretty much selling an idea that we all relate to, and using marketing tools to generate customers and profit. They sell you on this by saying without their supreme knowledge, you won't be able to figure out how to be awesome, deep, rich, or successful on your own.  That's what's crap.  And a lot of people on here posted about how they upsell you into higher level courses, that's all very true.  At the end of my forum I felt like an idiot becuase I didn't have $600 to blow on the next course.  Our forum leader pretty much told us it would be plain stupid not to take the next course.  Now just think of how many people in one room signed up for that course that night.  Like 200 at least.  That's $120,000.  I'd sell dirt in a can and call it self betterment for that much money.  All they're selling is common sense.  They have very basic points about life that they tell you in a series of 40 hours.
The main one is....Don't be fake.  Like if you really want a great and moving career in your life, choose it, work for it and do it.  Don't just "talk" about doing it and never do it.  But it is kind of crap though b/c in the forum, you get under a bunch of peer pressure.  People are having "breakthoughs" all around you and you're struggling to get what "being in the present" means.                       
There's a lot of good things to it, but they deny that it's cultish.  It IS cultish.  They DO pressure you to get people to go.  They call it "Being Enrolling."  And if you flake out and don't enroll a lot of people, then you did something wrong.  But being wrong doesn't make you wrong of course, it just gives you a different impact.

Honestly in the forum (since I still go to the relationship seminars that I got for free, I have 4 more left..) they tell you that if you've done something bad in your life not to make yourself wrong for it.  They also tell you that the Forum isn't for "fixing" yourself or others.  But honestly, why the hell would a multimillion dollar organization be charging people for "life transformation" if there weren't things that were fixable?  

The Landmark forum is a paradox, a silly dichotamy.  They say that in the world nothing is wrong.  But then they say learning that technology will give you the secrets to life and you'll learn that you're making others wrong.  Well if we were born without the secrets to life, then we are in essense, missing something.  If we don't have what we're missing and we have to pay them to get it, then a discrepancy in some capacity exists.  Something that's wrong exists, and we can buy the thing that will make it right.  That thing folks, is Landmark Forum.  In all it's glory, bull crap, and certain gems of wisdom, you can buy it.  For only $425 for your first course.  There are good things about it that I have learned, but nothing that's going to change my life or that is worth that much money.  They are a business, just like any other business, trying to sustain itself and expand in it's given market.  People forget this but it's good to remember.

If it walks like a cult and quacks like a cult...

I have to chuckle at all the cult references and comparisons to Scientology. I took the est training around 1985 when it was a military style training. The modern equivalent is candy-ass compared to that. You couldn't chew gum, wear a watch, go to the bathroom without three people quizzing you about it. The sessions lasted up to 16 hours at a time. It was the best thing I have ever done in my life and I'll tell you why. Each of us is totally brainwashed (conditioned)from the day we are born. Our parents brainwash us every day, as do our schools. It makes me laugh to hear people in this thread talking about est as being brainwashing, or a cult. You are all speaking from a brain that is already brainwashed. The prime objective of est seminars is to undo that brainwashing over two weekends, and if you give them half a chance, it will happen. A Zen master from Asia sat in on one est seminar and afterward he said something along the lines of "amazing....fast-food enlightenment...only in America". He wasn't kidding, people reach a state of enlightenment during these seminars. ITS THE OPPOSITE OF BRAINWASHING. The military approach is required to keep the brainwashed brains focused so the enlightenment can take place. Scientology is the opposite. They force feed you information which you are required to accept and believe, and you pay a lot of money for that. That does not happen at an est seminar. They are totally open about what is going on and they help you break down your inherent belief system. I would agree that they don't have to be so high pressure. I refused to participate in the high pressure techniques and no one hassled me about it. The motto is "take what you get". If the high pressure bothers you, then go there and deal with it. I wanted to take the seminar but was hung up on the pressure they were exerting on me to sign a cheque on the spot. I refused. An English guy came along who was more friendly and asked what I had against signing. I told him. He looked at me and said, sign the bloody thing". It was the way he put it, and I signed. The thing to understand is that you can go to one of these seminars and deal with it YOUR way, as long as you are not disruptive. They will prod you and confront you but IT'S UP TO YOU how you deal with it. The confrontation is to force you into a confrontation with your built-in resistance to change. It's your own brainwashing that gets in the way. If you participate and deal with any feelings that come up, especially the negative ones, I guarantee you will have a very positive outcome and it will change your life. I was flying high when I finished the seminar and I've never felt such a beautiful, huge feeling since. 20 years later I am experiencing no ill effects. I went to a few mini-seminars after the intitial seminar, then I left. No one hassled me. In any one of the seminars I stood up for myself. I was never disruptive but I never followed any one of the pressure tactics and I was left alone. Cultists don't operate that way. The important thing about an est seminar is getting to be with about 150 people in an intimate atmosphere. You don't have to participate, but many people stand up and talk about their feelings. It's really beautiful to watch people transform over two weekends. One guy came in a with a really negative attitude to the point of belligerance. He was a drunk. Part way through the seminar, he stood up and talked about the time he was driving recklessly in his truck, got in an accident, and killed his friend and girlfriend. He was in tears as he talked, but after that incident, the guy totally changed. I saw a lot of that in the seminar and it happened to me. est is NOT about brainwashing...it's about undoing the cumulative effects of brainwashing that has already been established by our parents, our governments, our media, etc. Dealing with the high pressure sales techniques they employ is the first step in your transformation. If you don't like it, confront it. Tell them you don't like it. Most people just run away and complain about the brainwashing. Then again, that's how most people deal with life. They whine, and do nothing to change it. The staff at est are trained to be a mirror for you. People will fight change in any way they can, They tune it out by chewing gum, looking at their watches, or drifting off in boredom. The military wont let you do that. They keep on you till you learn something and it becomes automatic. There is no dogma at est. They have nothing for you to learn or accept. They have no belief system. It's all about YOU and YOUR personal conflicts. Each person in that seminar has his or her own baggage to deal with. I guarantee you that no one at an est seminar comes away with any dogma presented by est. The entire process is about breaking down your resistance to YOUR own changes. It's all about YOU.

Gordon, I admire your ability to distinguish the differences between Landmark and a cult.  I see your points, they are valid.  However Landmark is about brainwashing.  Take for instance the fact that when someone volunteers for them ONCE they hassle that person for months about dedicating more time on higher levels.  They also refuse to help them out.  If a volunteer needs help with the projects from a higher-up it should be given.   Landmark will have a rep call that person and say, "Look at who you're being."  Those people ought to look at who they're being. 

Also take into account how pushy they are about getting people to sign up.  They say if you're not bringing in people you're doing something wrong because you're not enrolling. 

Your opinion is your opinion.  If you think that people who don't agree with landmark are "brainwashed" then think that.  But I urge you to deal with these pushy people the same way I have and get a feel for how much they don't care about you or your life.  They only care about your involvement with the organization itself.

AND many graduates are weird.  They use landmark vocabulary and they're always asking weird questions like "Did you create your day well today?"  It's all about "Creating" and "Being fearless" and "Being real!"  It gets old after awhile and I find talking with landmark grads now who are very involved with the organization annoying and out of touch with reality.  They're clinging to this idea of tranformation, with all of the technicalities involved and make it their life.  I'm not willing to give up my ideas about life over to come organization that costs money to better oneself.

STAY AS FAR AWAY FROM LANDMARK AS YOU CAN....  AND FOR GAWDS SAKE, DONT LET YOUR LOVED ONES GET SUCKED IN EITHER!!!

I went with a friend to their info night after she attended their weekend long brainwashing via sleep, food, outside contact deprivation.  It was three hour recruiting session where they asked for my money no less than 8 times.  I would have walked out if it were not for my friend that brought me. 

If you are going to join a cult, at least join one that you can fire off guns and sleep with multiple people!   Attention: REGISTER / LOGIN to view the image!

LOL...that's

Waste of time!

I just have some questions...Does anyone out there have an answer?? Those that do not get conned, by the landmark sales pitch/racket, understand how vicious landmark is. Many people know that they use thought reform techniques including neuro linguistic programming etc..to pull off their con job. They have have done this for decades. This is the ultimate kind of hostile action to take against another human being, other than outright frying their minds. They continue to get away with this game and there is no end in sight to this perverse racket. How are they permitted by law to operate, any where, when they employ techniques similar to what terror groups likely use to accomplishe brainwashing? How are they getting away with practicing this level of psychology without a license? Where are the authorities when landmark rolls into town? Why have they not been held accountable for their practices? Why is this organization allowed to con people out of their money, lives, and futures? I just don't get it? How does anyone know, in the general public, how deeply landmark has or has not infiltrated our legal systems?

A former acquaintance who's become heavily involved with Landmark confided in a few of us that Landmark intends to "take over Vancouver" (which is second only to NYC in "enrollments").

They certainly have already taken over the minds of a fair number of the fashionistas both on 4th Ave (lululemon) and elsewhere.

Scary! (and a very good reason NOT to support lululemon - yes, we know Chip sold it, but he's still there and a huge influence)

So you want to know what Landmark's like? Click the links and enjoy the show. It's Landmark being filmed with a hidden camera.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPUdYhvzGTA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWejJeMLKpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK2hI0U8C24
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjwA_dK23XE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB_NU0SuWMI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ra2Cw_zhITI

reply for 'Cha cha cha...'
It seems that the video clips were quickly removed! That is quite unfortunate. I'm not much into 'fiction' but I would have really enjoyed the 'show'!

It is very encouraging, none-the-less, that France has identified this perverse 'pyriamid scheme' as a sect! Authorities in one country have finally clued in, and I believe other countries will follow. Especially now that the organization is targeting the youth. Adults may consent for themselves but someone must consent for the youth. Parents/relatives of youth, of this 'sect', are going to have to snap out of their trances. If not, their kids (their heirs), are going to go down the same psychological tube. Living to volunteer, to take another course, to recruit more members, to work only to support the financial demands of membership(courses and travel...), to leave in shambles all other relationships...etc. It makes me sick to think of the unsuspecting new generation being sacrificed into this $$$ grab!

Yes, Landmark is nothing more than a cult.  A cut above Franklin Covey training - which is equally full of bullshit. 

Question for 'older and wiser'; Have you been, previously, involved with this org? If so, what does it take to 'see' it for what it is? How do you cause a person who is intelligent but brainwashed, to see what has happened to them? If not, I withdraw all the questions! :)
It seems that pride, awareness of one's intelligence, and false belief that one is still thinking and making choices independently, keeps the victims dangling like puppets for a long time. What does it take to cause the truth to surface??? I have not been involved but I have been recruited for an introduction. I did not stay for the whole thing ( I clued in to the scripted racket almost immediatly) but the person who insisted I go is a very intelligent person, has a career, is quite willing to remain totally immersed and consumed in the involvement of volunteering, more courses, advancing in the organization, learning scripts on how to coach others etc...(I must add, I believe it is nothing more than a cult as well)...anyway, my friend, who is now almost completely lost to me, has absolutely no clue that she has been brainwashed. She is not aware that she is a literal slave to her 'enlightenment', and she has no relationships that will survive outside her group.What is it that causes some people to realize that they've been supremely conned and that they were merely deployable agents (not 'business partners') while others remain in a state of zombie bliss??

Cult watcher:
Here you go friend. Watch and enjoy:

http://www.dailymotion.com/visited/search/landmark%20forum/1
http://www.dailymotion.com/visited/search/landmark%20forum/video/xhn8...
http://www.dailymotion.com/visited/search/landmark%20forum/video/xhnb...
http://www.dailymotion.com/visited/search/landmark%20forum/video/xhnd...
http://www.dailymotion.com/visited/tag/VoyageAuPaysDesNouveauxGourous...
http://www.dailymotion.com/visited/tag/VoyageAuPaysDesNouveauxGourous...