Vancouver Forum: Cost of Living -Out of Control

Cost of Living -1958

Sugar 10lbs = 89 cents
Milk = $1.01 /gallon
Ground Coffee = 93 cents/lb
Bacon =62 cents/lb
Eggs = 29 cents /dozen
ground bef = 57 cents /lb
bread =19 cents/loaf

New Home =$11,975.00 ( average size 1600 sq ft )
Average income = $4650.00/year
New Car = $2155.00
Average monthly rent 1 bedroom apt =$95.00/month
Tuition for University =$1000/year
Movie ticket = $1.00
Gasoline = 24 cents/ gallon
Postage Stamp (local ) = 4 cents

Compare those costs with todays average income and other living costs ,
when did the wheels fall off our economic wagon ? 80's , 90's ???

Now our Children cannot afford to live in the city they were born in .... what happened ???

Our Governments have a lot to answer for the losses to our wages and the living costs which have increased astronomically !

even with two full time wage earners its a stretch to own your own home as costs are way out of synch with wages !

Comments ????

This post has been edited by Yvr Man: 28 June 2009 - 09:09 PM

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Yvr Man, on Jun 28 2009, 09:50 PM, said:

... "Our Governments have a lot to answer for the losses to our wages and the costs have increased astronomically !"

My friend, it is called taxes. Regardless of the amount of money the average person makes these days, the take home pay is far less than in the fifties and early sixties. Just look at all the taxes that are now burdened on the average working person. Don't forget about all the extra taxes on the utility bills. Do you wonder why we are in this position today. Remember that every tax increase, wage increase is passed down the line. Who do you think pays in the end, yes it is you and me and all other average working people.

A very simple formula to live by is " what ever the cost of the item you desire divide it by two the multiply by three." That will give you a reasonable figure that is what you need to earn to purchase said item including most taxes. This does not include financing, such as credit cards or other finance arrangements.

Get ready for the next increase in anything that is transported by truck, train, boat, aircraft, car etc. The carbon tax goes up July 01, 2009 and that WILL be passed down the line and so will all other taxes and tolls.

Have a very pleasant evening.

So move out in the country where it's much cheaper to live. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Vancouver is way too expensive to live in. It's much cheaper to live out in the sticks. You can have a whole house to yourself on acres of lot for less than what you pay for a measily 1 bdrm appartment out in the city.

NNAA, on Jun 28 2009, 10:10 PM, said:

Understood re:taxes - but is there any way to reverse this trend or is a certainty that all is for nought for our children & grandchildren as excess taxation will in time "kill the patient" ?

Why has Canada fallen into the same trap as the USA ?

comments ?

vancouver minus rent or morgage payment is a very cheap place to live. Add rent or morgage Vancouver's in the top twenty expense wise

Some other Statistics to ponder ...

Growing Inequality:

America now has the highest inequality of income in the industrialized world. In 1940 we had the least disparity of wealth with CEOs making about 12 times that of their average worker.
Now it is 180 times as much. So this as seen CEO salaries increase 500% since 1980 while wage earners salaries have dropped 5%.

The United States is tied with Guatemala in having the richest and poorest 20% of the population.

The 3 richest people in the US have a combined wealth equal to more than 115 million ordinary working class Americans.

The world's 358 billionaires have more assets than the combined incomes of countries representing nearly half - 45 per cent - of the planet's population.

the wealthiest 1% of Americans incomes have gone up 31%.
Over the last 15 years the amount of American billionaires have increased 1300%,

the limit needed to be listed in the Forbes 400 has increased 500% and those in the $120,000 income bracket has increased by 25%.
2/3 of working Americans make less in purchasing power than they did in 1979.

In 1980 the top managers of the top 300 US companies had income 29 times larger than that of a manufacturing worker, by 1990 the same companies had a 93 times greater income.

In the past 25 years real wages for males (wages being money paid for labor rather than pushing paper or talking on the phone) has dropped 15%.

In 1992 the total economic output of the whole world was five times what it was in 1950, yet poverty is worse than what it was 45 years ago.

In 1950 the richest fifth of the worlds population took home 30 percent of the worlds income, today that richest fifth take home 60 percent of the worlds income.

Today's poorest fifth of the world share a mere 1.4 percent of the worlds income.

In the period since 1979 in the ex USSR, trade union membership has halved, mass unemployment and the underclass have become a permanent feature of life, casualisation of labor has rocketed, the gap between rich and poor has mushroomed?

In addition to concentrating wealth and power, today's fossil-fuel-based system has engendered large imbalances in energy use and social well-being. Its benefits have not been extended to roughly 2 billion of the world's poor--a third of global population--who still rely on biomass for cooking and lack access to electricity.

Today, the richest fifth of humanity consumes 58 percent of the world's energy, while the poorest fifth uses less than 4 percent.

The United States, with 5 percent of the world's population, uses nearly one quarter of global energy supplies; on a per capita basis, it consumes twice as much energy as Japan and 12 times as much as China.

Cost of Living 1970:

In 1970 a new house cost twice the annual salary of a married couple even with only one working.

Today a new house costs five times as much with most couples both working.

Between 1978 and 1988 the richest 1% of Americans had their incomes rise by 122% while the bottom 60% saw their incomes drop.

there are much more expensive places to live in the world, im trying to remember the website that has the imformation, but i dont think vancouver was even in the top 50

ah found it

the list

North America
from same study ....

If the US dollar stays weak, Canadian cities could become the most expensive in North America as Vancouver (34th) and Montréal (=36th) continue to close the price gap on New York.

Vancouver is now only four percentage points cheaper than New York and more expensive than any other city in North America.
Montreal has the same cost of living as Chicago (=36th), the second costliest in the US.

[

This post has been edited by I AM BOG: 28 June 2009 - 09:58 PM

Our government leaders have promised us robust economies in the past . yet how many have done well in the last few growth cycles ? seems the growth in wealth sems o be concentrated in less and less minority hands while the majority is just able to make ends meet ... somthing is very wrong with our economies when growth does not benefit the majority of wage earners ....

Comments ?

This post has been edited by Yvr Man: 28 June 2009 - 10:03 PM

supply an demand is the only driving force to a market. If people want it they will pay for it. As long as the market has buyers it will stay high.It will only go down when people stop paying the prices they do.
the goverment has nothing to do with the price of your house.
If you were to list your house tomorrow,who comes up with the asking price? you and your listing agent do.
they test the market, if the fish don't bite then they lower the price.
I would imagine in 1958 we had fewer people here and more land available for developing. Seeing they are no longer making any land, one would assume prices in general would keep increasing over time.I am not saying they will not drop, I think the market is over priced and could very well go down,but only if buyers choose for it to happen.Sellers will always ask as high a price as they think they can get.

Understood re : supply & demand for land costs

then why have year-to-year wages not kept up with year-to-year costs in the same ratio as previous costs vs wages in prior decades ?

Why have "growth" when it only benefits a few businesses and penalizes the many with higher taxes and costs ?

Who benefits to adding more and more population to a finite land base in BC ?

This post has been edited by Yvr Man: 28 June 2009 - 10:19 PM

Yvr Man, on Jun 28 2009, 08:50 PM, said:

....That's right, YVR. It's very true.

The availability of credit is the reason for the higher costs they won't come down unless credit is tightened.

NSgirl, on 28 June 2009 - 10:08 PM, said:

My family and relatives are part of the influx of immigrants who came to Canada around the 70s-80s. I can tell you for sure they were one of the group of immigrants responsible for the housing prices to jack up dramatically. The housing prices are currently over-inflated because of the rich immigrants buying houses/condos at ridiculous prices. My Chinese neighbour (across the street) bought a new house recently for just over $1 million. And he does not speak English very well. The real estate companies are clearly taking advantage of these wealthy immigrants.

The Asian currency is still strong right now, so more rich Asians will try to move to Canada just to get away from the Asian government, who taxes the rich like crazy. Our government claims that immigration has stopped, but I doubt it. I'm pretty sure many of those rich bastards bribed their way through.

Our government are dumbasses for accepting too many rich immigrants here...and well...living in Vancouver sucks now.

City Average House Price >> 12 Month Change Vancouver,
BC , $536,000 - 8.8 %
Calgary, Alb$362,000- 11.4 %
Toronto, Ont$344,000 - 8.2 %
Ottawa, Ont$291,000+ 1.8 %
Montreal, Que$252,000+ 2.3 %
Halifax, NS$243,000+ 11.1 %
Regina, Sask$214,000+ 7.6 %
Fredericton, NB$156,000+ 7.3 %

Still TOO High , median home prices should be @ $ 290,000 !to match average wages ....

This post has been edited by Yvr Man: 28 July 2009 - 06:26 AM

YVR man, people still buy those places, do you know what type of people? Rich people and upper middle class yuppies. The only way to stop this trend is to tax them at a much higher rate than we are now, thus cutting their buying power and lowering prices as well as lowering the tax burden on regular people.

Of course a simple communist revolution could rid us of the parasite class for good, but I'm guessing my support for that is sadly, in the minority.

Yvr Man, on 28 July 2009 - 07:22 AM, said:

The average house price in Florida isn't even $200,000 Canadian right now. Can you believe that?


Even at the height of the American real estate boom, the price wasn't even the $290,000 Canadian you've listed.

Personally, I'd take the vacation home in Florida any day b'fore I'd plunk down $200,000 for a piece of junk in -40 below weather in Regina.

Typical 1 BR Apartments in Vancouver are now twice as high as a house (with a couple of bedrooms + LAND) in Florida.

So, if people wanna get stupid and buy their $400,000 1 BR in DT Vancouver, be my guest.

http://www.manausa.c...homes090131.php

This post has been edited by .or?: 28 July 2009 - 06:48 AM

Yvr Man, on 28 June 2009 - 10:28 PM, said:

Despite this, a lot of homes in the US are in line with the inflation rate since 1970. You can still buy homes in the US today for $100,000-$150,000. That's not so bad considering the cost of living has probably gone up by 10 times since 1970. So in 1970 dollars, those prices have remained constant. $10-$15,000 1970 dollars for a home.

But in Vancouver, people are typically paying $300,000-$400,000 for a 500 sq. foot apartment.  I mean, WTF? If inflation is factored in, then that's $30,000-$40,000 in 1970 dollars for a 1BR apartment. People simply didn't pay that much money for homes 40 years ago. A typical house on the East Side 40 years ago cost $10,000 at 1970 prices. 

So, greed and rampant speculation have pushed Vancouver RE to dizzying levels. 

But in most parts of the continent, the best land in the United States, doesn't sell for what you'd pay for a minimal piece of RE in Vancouver.

For example, it's possible to buy a house (with land) in Bainbridge Island, a posh suburb of Seattle, for less than a 1 BR apartment in Vancouver.

So if people are that eagre to buy RE at inflated prices in this city, be my guest.

This post has been edited by .or?: 28 July 2009 - 07:31 AM

As someone who's lived around the world.

Vancouver is by FAR the cheapest place ive lived in.

The ONLY thing which is more expensive here is property, but that's only because it's at the peak of the bubble driven by low interest rates by people too stupid to realise they cant actually afford the money they're borrowing.

Anyone who's dumb enough to buy in this climate deserves everything they get. I rent a cheap appartment downtown (probably the cheapest rent i've paid anywhere since sharing a house as a student), and i'm very well off because cost of living is cheap here.


As for the other stuff posted - most of the other things are in line with inflation...

http://www.bankofcan...ation_calc.html


$100 in 1958 is worth $762 now. I.e. everything has gone up in price that much, including wages.


People rarely factor this (or interest paid for that matter) in when they tell you how much "profit" they gained by selling their house after a 40 year mortgage...

great topic lots of good news in here

but gawd, now i fell depressed

smelly, on 28 July 2009 - 09:31 AM, said:

Bullshit. It's not the cheapest place in the world to live in. It may be less expensive than other places. But it's not the cheapest.


And a good house in Vancouver could be bought for less than $40,000 in 1970.

Now that same house is worth at least $1,000,000.


So that's at least 20 times the rate of inflation of RE.

If a candy bar cost 10 cents in 1972, and now it's over $1, that's an indication of the cost of living.

Same with a loaf of bread. 25 cents, in 1970, not at least $2.50.

Like wise, if minimum wage was around $2 in 1970, it should be $20 an hour today.

Cost of living keeping up with inflation? given the figure you quoted, somehow I don't think so.

Inflation on many items is not just 700%. Maybe on radios, other consumer products it's gone down, but every day staples and  housing, it's really gone up.

That's why your figure is misleading, because it factos in non-essential consumer goods.

This post has been edited by .or?: 28 July 2009 - 08:55 AM

Minium wage in 1970 was only $1.50/hr: http://srv116.servic...?lang=eng&dec=1

.or?, on 28 July 2009 - 09:45 AM, said:

i said (and i quote) "cheapest IVE LIVED IN"

of course there are cheaper places.

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And as i said.. because of that - if you buy real estate at these inflated prices - then you're a fool.

Quote

Usually it does. In "normal" inflationary times, if you dont get at least a 2% pay rise each year - you're getting a pay cut.

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You need to read up on how inflation is calculated

NSgirl, on 28 June 2009 - 11:08 PM, said:

Totally true

Quote

Actually the most major difference between now and then (in terms of house prices).. is that back then - no-one in their right mind would borrow 9 times their income with nothing down! Actually the banks wouldnt have let them.

Back then the only mortgage you were going to get would've been 30% down max double your yearly income.

The reason? Well prices go down as well as up .. just like interest rates do...

Really, on 29 June 2009 - 01:11 AM, said:

it is just as expensive to live out in the sticks where you are far from jobs and services and have to drive everywhere and communiting and car expenses and maintainance costs will take up a large part of your salary

.or?, on 28 June 2009 - 11:18 PM, said:

Not just children but apparently 50+ year old guys as well.

Yvr Man, on 28 June 2009 - 10:02 PM, said:

smelly, on 28 July 2009 - 08:31 AM, said:

The reason why Vancouver appears to be cheap to you is because the fact that you have been bilked in foreign soil proved your ignorance. The government and perhaps even the competent landlords normally gouges foreigners' money as a way of saying: f**k you. We don't want you here. But thanks for visiting. Asian governments, for example, are very hardass on foreigners --- obviously to protect their own citizens. Canada does the exact opposite and hence this attracts a lot of criminals, whether they be rich or poor. Everyday where I work with customers (most of them wealthy), half of them couldn't speak proper English, yet they are either PR or Canadian citizen. Some of my foreign co-workers who claimed to be students (learning English) are actually sent to Vancouver thanks to their exceedingly wealthy parents. The fact that they work in a customer service department (in Vancouver) is extremely laughable.

Vancouver is definitely one of the most expensive cities in the world considering all the parameters. And Vancouver definitely has a third-world environment....almost everywhere. Taxes are clearly too high. Lots of middle-class foreigners have commented on this.

Also, rent will go up dramatically next year. Your independence can only go so far. Luckily, I have been able to correctly predict the future just because while in university, I understood more about why the government and the corporations in North America has always been playing devil's advocate. I was going to rent an apartment room years ago, but changed my mind when I found out a lot of juicy info about the landlords/strata management. I opted to stay with my parents.

Now this is a list of Take home salaries in 2007 for the CEOs of these companies......

1. Michael Lazaridis, Research in Motion Ltd. $51, 515, 518
2. Gordon Nixon, Royal Bank of Canada. $44, 270, 084
3. Robert A. Milton, ACE Aviation Holdings Inc. $42, 928, 122
4. James Balsillie, Research in Motion Ltd., $32, 053, 959
5. Paul Desmarais Jr., Power Corp. of Canada. $29, 292, 829
6. Andre Desmarais, Power Corp. of Canada. $28, 675, 763
7. Bruce Flatt, Brookfield Asset Management Inc. $27, 164, 707
8. J.M. Lipton, Nova Chemicals Corp. $25, 639, 972
9. Raymond McFeerors, Great-West Lifeco Inc. $24, 759, 648
10. William Doyle, Potash Corp. of Saskatchewan. $24, 020, 161
11. James Buckee, Talisman Energy Inc. $21, 764, 501
12. Charles Fischer, Nexen Inc. $20, 492, 640
13. Michael Wilson, Agrium Inc. $19, 783, 195
14. Donald Stewart, Sun Life Financial Inc. $19, 535, 510
15. Richard George, Suncor Energy Inc. $18, 264, 513
16. Ian W. Delaney, Sherritt International Corp. $17, 744, 953
17. Ron Brenneman, Petro-Canada. $17, 684, 375
18. Peter Marrone, Yamana Gold Inc. $17, 381, 267
19. Richard Waugh, Bank of Nova Scotia. $16, 004, 233
20. Dominic D’Alessandro, Manulife Financial Corp. $14, 715, 681
21. John Lau, Husky Energy Inc., $14, 251, 958
22. Tim Hearn, Imperial Oil. Ltd., $13, 380, 227
23. Siegfried Wolf, Magna International Inc., $13, 359, 110
24. Hunter Harrison, Canada National Railway Co., $13, 322, 045
25. Tye Burt, Kinross Gold Corp. $13, 200, 601
26. Gerald Schwartz, Onex Corp. $12,621,993
27. Donald Walker, Magna International Inc. $12,105,897
28. Jean Claude Gandur, Addax Petroleum Corp. $11,190,781
29. Gregory Wilkins, Barrick Gold Corp. $10,269,550
30. Dr. Rui Feng, Silvercorp metals Inc. $10,169,212
31. Robert Brown, CAE Inc (for fiscal year). $10,141,957
32. Edmund Clark, Toronto-Dominion Bank. $9,840,466
33. Richard Harrington, Thomson Reuters Corp. $9,676,404
34. Kevin McArthur, Goldcorp Inc. $9,647,602
35. Gerald Grandey, Cameo Corp. $9,500,865
36. Jacques Lamarre, SNC-Lavalin Group Inc. $9,076,920
37. M.H. McCain, Maple Leaf Foods Inc. $8,551,534
38. Steve Laut, Canadian Natural Resources Ltd. $8,278,031
39. Arthur Millholland, Oilexco Inc. $8,123,573
40. Colin K Benner, Lundin Mining Corp. $8,041,232
41. William Downe, Bank of Montreal. $8,008,707
42. Stephen Snyder, TransAlta Corp. $7,461,700
43. Darren Entwistle, TELUS Corp. $7,440,557
44. John M Cassaday, Corus Entertainment Inc. $7,427,237
45. Jurgen Schreiber, Shopper Drug Mart Corp. $7,147,083
46. Gerald M. Soloway, Home Capital Group Inc. $6,928,000
47. William Holland, CI Financial Income Fund. $6,803,141
48. Robert A Quartermain, Silver Standard Resources Inc. $6,744,145
49. Mike Zafirovski, Nortel Networks Corp. $6,715,734
50. Jim Shaw, Shaw Communications Inc. $6,709,219

Now I don't know about you, but I went to post-secondary, got my diploma, and I've been constantly looking for work for a year now! You know where I ended up after College, back at home in my parents house because I could no longer afford my rent in Vancouver while working 40 hours a week at $12/hr....... my rent wasn't very high, it was just so expensive for monthly transit passes, food, electricity/hydro bills, and trying to go out with friends to a club once or twice a month just to unwind is ridiculous..... you have to pay the cover fee, then the bars are all overpriced.

I just dont get it, I am a relatively frugal person, but since moving back to my home town on Vancouver Island I haven't been able to find a job that pays more than $8.25/hr....... Now how am I supposed to pay rent, pay my student loans, and bank loans that are all taxed to death on a wage like that??? I work 40-60 hours a week, I dont have to buy food, thank goodness, but I cant do much else besides sitting here looking for work in Vancouver that will pay me enough to live there. Good thing Campbell wants to jump on board with the whole HST the Eastern provinces have decided is a great idea. Too bad he's running this province into the pits...... it would be nice to be able to afford to live here, but I'm pretty damn sure I won't be sticking around in this province for much longer, especially with the Olympics on the way..... who wants to live in Vancouver when there's tanks driving down the street for extra security??? Such a waste of money bringing the Olympics here, it's going to cause more problems than anyone may be able to get out of

Yvr Man, on 28 June 2009 - 08:50 PM, said:

I do remembr those prices.

I remember getting nominally paid much less than in later years.

But I also fondly remember the friendly ratio between net and gross pay and it's resulting great purchasing power and wonderful quality of life .

Life was great ,it had so much to offer and give to those , who were willing to struggle and muddle through , who were not too proud to adapt and try to live within their means and station in life.

Of coure , then you were your own responsibiliy - you looked out and cared for yourself and your family. Mediocrity was eschewed. All conservative principles of course.

Today , less than mediocrity is the new standard of acceptance . 'Excellence' per se is being frowned on as asocial 'elitism' .

Almost imperceptively , and aided by corruptive selfinterest of (particularly left leaning ) political administrations, the situation turned bottom up - and so did most it's former values.

Of course foolishness needs financing , lot of foolishness needs lots of financing and only foolishness is called 'communism' .

Yes , communism hailed all those upside down values 'liberalism' try to blind us with : "the State looks after you ; you have no responsibility ; you do as you were being told- because what you are being told- is good for you ; you give most of your time and earnings to the State ; the State provides essential services and goods = all services and goods are essential.

Well we are not quite there yet , by a long shot, but staying this uncommon sense course , we are crouchingly creeping toward the mother of this corrosive philosophy - it's a mere mathematical question when and how we're at her bosom.

Rent: 1 bdrm suite $1200
Food: $300+
Utilities: $50 (hydro - i don't pay it its included for me but I am guessing thats about average for a typical apartment)
Cable: $100 Range
Telephone: no idea i only have a cell
Cell: $30 & up
BC Medical: $54/month at the most - varies according to your income
Bus Pass: 1 zone = $73 2 zone = $99 3 zone = $136
Entertainment: $300 or so ?? it depends what you do
Car insurance: $1100/annually seems to be what most pay - they is cheaper and more depends
Parking: $50+ per month - most rentals charge extra plus if you drive you have to pay depending what is available
Other stuff: well it all depends on what you want - clothes, music, DVD's whatever

Minimum to live comfortably today is approx $50 K to $60 K per year !

or $25 to $30 dollars per hour ,,,,but where are those jobs ?

During Campbell's watch , well paid jobs in the above category have become rare as the lumber industry has shrunk all over bc , mind you his administration has created the environment for a lot of Mac-Jobs at minimum scale !



Comments ???

Yvr Man, on 28 June 2009 - 08:50 PM, said:

I find milk is more expensive in 1958 dollars than it would be for us to buy milk today. Rent has gone down since 95.00/month on 1995 dollars would have been more than 400.00/month today