DV's ethics poll

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DV's ethics poll Rate Topic: 2 Votes

#1 Goat Boy©

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 09:52 PM

And explain why.

I say no. Exponential pop growth is already a massive problem, if Cancer was cured it would jump massively. And yes, I've had family members die of Cancer, I know what it feels like. That's life, that's nature.

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#2 Blue Frost

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 10:00 PM

I voted yes because I just had another uncle that came up with it today

As for the overpopulation, I don't think it matters.
We need to learn how to live together anyway so we can cope with it, it's not like it's not going to happen.

#3 Macy

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 10:17 PM

I don't think withholding the cure for cancer or any other disease is Ethical.

This post has been edited by Macy: 02 July 2009 - 10:17 PM

#4 Zetsu

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 10:38 PM

I'd say we should use the cure, the biggest concern to over popluation birth control management in China and India.

#5 Natasha

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 10:50 PM

Blue Frost, on 02 July 2009 - 11:00 PM, said:

I voted yes because I just had another uncle that came up with it today

As for the overpopulation, I don't think it matters.
We need to learn how to live together anyway so we can cope with it, it's not like it's not going to happen.

I'm so sorry to hear this, Blue. You better keep up with your physicals hun.
I voted yes too

I understand the world is overpopulated but there are so many other diseases on the rise killing people. Not to mention, the people themselves murdering one another. And you add to it, those individuals commiting suicide.... all of it (and them some)... it's on the rise.

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#6 AA Lavey

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 10:57 PM

Of course it should be used. Population growth is a moot point in the argument. The answer lies in the well being of the existant individual/s and those they envision threatened by the disease and not the concept that humanity has as a common goal for the well being of humanity as an entity.
I vote yes

#7 Blue Frost

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 11:01 PM

Natasha, on 03 July 2009 - 02:50 AM, said:

I'm so sorry to hear this, Blue. You better keep up with your physicals hun.
I voted yes too

Well he's a great uncle 82 or 83, I have only met him a few times but my mom was his favorite niece, and she calls him occasionally.
They took a large mass off his leg that's been hurting bad and it's a fast growing cancer.
I was hoping that no one would die for another year or so. Now I have two with it, maybe another and maybe an aunt.
It's messed up

#8 Qwerty

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 11:02 PM

Yes. Cancer is a unfortunate scourge, just like AIDS, The Plague, whatever. For all the suffering and death they have caused, they haven't really made a dent in world population.

The answer for overpopulation would appear to be stability, education and birth control. In western countries, the birthrate is a nice 1+ per person. Completely sustainable.

#9 Natasha

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 11:09 PM

Blue Frost, on 03 July 2009 - 12:01 AM, said:

He's up there in age. I bet he's lived an interesting life then

So many aren't fortunate to make it to that age. Is he doing well now?
Please, take good care of yourself, hun.

#10 Blue Frost

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 11:13 PM

Natasha, on 03 July 2009 - 03:09 AM, said:

He's up there in age. I bet he's lived an interesting life then

So many aren't fortunate to make it to that age. Is he doing well now?
Please, take good care of yourself, hun.

He's not good, they have him on a lot of pain meds, I don't know much right now but I think it will kill him pretty quick.
I'm ok about it, I just wish people didn't have to suffer so much.

#11 Natasha

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 11:17 PM

Blue Frost, on 03 July 2009 - 12:13 AM, said:

He's not good, they have him on a lot of pain meds, I don't know much right now but I think it will kill him pretty quick.
I'm ok about it, I just wish people didn't have to suffer so much.

I'm glad you're doing ok. I agree, it's hard knowing there are people who are suffering. It's even worse when those who suffer are children.
You mentioned an aunt possibly having it too, have you heard anything about her?

#12 Blue Frost

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 11:24 PM

Natasha, on 03 July 2009 - 03:17 AM, said:

No I haven't, she refuses to go to the doctor.

Yeah the children break my heart, I have had to go to the children hospital several times over the years with my nephews and somehow end up on that floor with them.
The little kids are so brave with it, I have to try not to bring them down and cry for them.

#13 Natasha

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 11:33 PM

Blue Frost, on 03 July 2009 - 12:24 AM, said:

No I haven't, she refuses to go to the doctor.

Yeah the children break my heart, I have had to go to the children hospital several times over the years with my nephews and somehow end up on that floor with them.
The little kids are so brave with it, I have to try not to bring them down and cry for them.

Wow! That's rather different for a person with cancer. All we can do is pray for her.. well, for your entire family. I'll make sure you're in there too :D I'll worry about you so much now

but you know how to reach me if you need to talk.

#14 Blue Frost

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 11:44 PM

Natasha, on 03 July 2009 - 03:33 AM, said:

Wow! That's rather different for a person with cancer. All we can do is pray for her.. well, for your entire family. I'll make sure you're in there too :D I'll worry about you so much now

but you know how to reach me if you need to talk.

no need to worry about me, Ill last forever

Thanks for the thoughts.
Hey I hope you have a great night with many sweet dreams :wub:

I need to go now.
I to see you again on a happy thread

#15 Guest R

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 11:58 PM

I know "yes" is the correct answer.

#16 Natasha

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 11:59 PM

^yes sir, Blue

May angels kiss your dreams. Good night.

#17 Goat Boy©

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 04:09 AM

AA Lavey, on 02 July 2009 - 11:57 PM, said:

Elegant words...I've deleted my vote.

#18 North Delta

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 04:31 AM

My wife had non hodgkins lymphoma in her kidneys when she was 35. We had three children together who were all pre teens. The first oncologist said she had a 10% chance of living. After 13 rounds of chemo and many many near death situations she slowly started to come around. Today she is just 5 years cancer free. Watching a young mother go through something like that is the most terrible thing you can imagine.

If they had a cure for all cancers and didn't use it to save people like her it would be the most insanly evil thing that a human could ever do.

#19 shinta chan

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 04:54 AM

I voted yes!

#20 Diarmuid

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 05:24 AM

AA Lavey, on 02 July 2009 - 10:57 PM, said:

Ditto GB's comment.

As much as I believe that a massive population reduction must take place with humans, ignoring the last vestiges of altruistic (or at the very least mutualistic) humanity is certainly not preferable to slowly choking the planet to death.

#21 heinzy

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 05:26 AM

Quote

If they had a cure for cancer, should it be used?

I could not think of a more absurd question.

#22 Itsy Bitsy

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 07:34 AM

I agree that population control is a huge problem that is only going to get bigger and it needs to be resolved. I don't think withholding cancer treatment would be the way to do it. Many people who get cancer are reasonably productive and healthy people. Although I would not be opposed to withholding treatment from smokers who get lung cancer... or any other similar situations where that person really did engage in a positively stupid activity and got the expected result (cancer). I also wouldn't be opposed to forced sterilization after a person has produced two healthy biological children. I also think people who have been proven to be physically or sexually abusive to children should be steralized and rapists should be castrated (which works as sterilization too).

#23 mia

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 01:34 PM

Itsy Bitsy, on 03 July 2009 - 07:34 AM, said:

That's a mighty slippery slope. I wouldn't even consider having a doctor who chose to not treat smokers. What about colon cancer or other cancers that could indicate living an unhealthy lifestyle. The breech of his commitment to heal and to the hippocratic oath would be at serious odds. I have ethics too, and they would not meet mine. It's not much of a leap to refusing treatment to those that are overweight...or maybe just don't have a diet that meets his specific approval. How about refusing to treat those found responsible for a motor vehicle accident. Hell....what about any accident where the victim should have known better. Next thing you know, they'll have the right to refuse treatment to someone for a personality clash. No thanks.

I can't even touch the concept of forced sterilization after two children.

#24 Itsy Bitsy

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 01:52 PM

^ Typical internet argument where you compare something moderately offensive to something completely insane.

#25 Goat Boy©

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 02:13 PM

Itsy Bitsy, on 03 July 2009 - 02:52 PM, said:

^ Typical internet argument where you compare something moderately offensive to something completely insane.

So somebody who eats lots of McCranks isn't eligible for heart or cardio treatment right?

#26 Itsy Bitsy

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 02:34 PM

^ I didn't say that....

You're not seriously disagreeing with me after what you said are you?

#27 mia

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 02:48 PM

So somebody who eats lots of McCranks isn't eligible for heart or cardio treatment right?

According to the approval of a doctor's right to refuse treatment to those who make choices that offend his sensibilities, no.

#28 mia

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 02:55 PM

Itsy Bitsy, on 03 July 2009 - 01:52 PM, said:

^ Typical internet argument where you compare something moderately offensive to something completely insane.

I agree that it's an insane comparison. But only a tiny bit insane. Who would have thought 20 years ago, that a doctor would even entertain the notion of selective treatment. Who knows what the next 20 will bring, should step one become a reality.

#29 Goat Boy©

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 03:08 PM

Itsy Bitsy, on 03 July 2009 - 03:34 PM, said:

^ I didn't say that....

You're not seriously disagreeing with me after what you said are you?

Apples and oranges, and I didn't think the OP through.

I was agreeing with:

mia, on 03 July 2009 - 02:34 PM, said:

Because it's true.

#30 Goat Boy©

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 03:09 PM

mia, on 03 July 2009 - 03:48 PM, said:

According to the approval of a doctor's right to refuse treatment to those who make choices that offend his sensibilities, no.

Depends on the doc, hospitals have to treat you.

#31 ghost

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Posted 05 July 2009 - 08:37 PM

I voted yes. I sure would have loved to have my Dad around for at least ten more years. Call me selfish....

#32 ghost

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Posted 05 July 2009 - 08:42 PM

Depends on the doc, hospitals have to treat you.

There is a limit to that. Studies have shown that smokers don't heal at the same rate as non-smokers. Hospitals can refuse operations on patients who don't quit smoking before major operations. Of course you can just lie...I did and I healed just fine.

They can also refuse to operation on someone who is considered high risk. Meaning that if a patient is told to go on a special diet in order to receive an operation...and they refuse...they can refuse the operation based on the health risks involved.