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#1 User is offline   Captain Dick Icon

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 08:18 PM

by Ralph Nader


Matthew P. Hoh, a former U.S. combat marine captain and Department of Defense civilian in Iraq starting in 2004 and until September a political officer in the Foreign Service stationed in Afghanistan is giving some consternation to President Obama’s advisors as the Commander in Chief considers sending more soldiers to that war-torn country next to Pakistan.

Mr. Hoh wrote a letter of resignation to the State Department in September. His four page letter frames his doubts about what he said is the “why and to what end” behind “the strategic purposes of the United States’ presence in Afghanistan. He notes that like the Soviets’ nine year occupation, “we continue to secure and bolster a failing state, while encouraging an ideology and system of government unknown and unwanted by its people.”

Mr. Hoh focuses on the giant Pashtun society composed of 42 million people and moves to his conclusions. Read his words:

“The Pashtun insurgency, which is composed of multiple, seemingly infinite, local groups, is fed by what is perceived by the Pashtun people as a continued and sustained assault, going back centuries, on Pashtun land, culture, traditions and religion by internal and external enemies. The U.S. and NATO presence and operations in Pashtun valleys and villages, as well as Afghan army and police units that are led and composed of non-Pashtun soldiers and police, provide an occupation force against which the insurgency is justified. In both RC East and South, I have observed that the bulk of the insurgency fights not for the white banner of the Taliban, but rather against the presence of foreign soldiers and taxes imposed by an unrepresentative government in Kabul.

“The United States military presence in Afghanistan greatly contributes to the legitimacy and strategic message of the Pashtun insurgency. In a like manner our backing of the Afghan government in its current form continues to distance the government from the people. The Afghan government’s failings, particularly when weighed against the sacrifice of American lives and dollars, appear legion and metastatic:

• Glaring corruption and unabashed graft;
• A President whose confidants and chief advisers comprise drug lords and war crimes villains, who mock our own rule of law and counternarcotics efforts;
• A system of provincial and district leaders constituted of local power brokers, opportunists and strongmen allied to the United States solely for, and limited by, the value of our USAID and CERP contracts and whose own political and economic interests stand nothing to gain from any positive or genuine attempts at reconciliation; and
• The recent election process dominated by fraud and discredited by low voter turnout, which has created an enormous victory for our enemy who now claims a popular boycott and will call into question worldwide our government’s military, economic and diplomatic support for an invalid and illegitimate Afghan government.

“Our support for this kind of government, coupled with a misunderstanding of the insurgency’s true nature, reminds me horribly of our involvement with South Vietnam; an unpopular and corrupt government we backed at the expense of our Nation’s own internal peace, against an insurgency whose nationalism we arrogantly and ignorantly mistook as a rival to our own Cold War ideology.

“I find specious the reasons we ask for bloodshed and sacrifice from our young men and women in Afghanistan. If honest, our stated strategy of securing Afghanistan to prevent al-Qaeda resurgence or regrouping would require us to additionally invade and occupy western Pakistan, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen, etc. Our presence in Afghanistan has only increased destabilization and insurgency in Pakistan where we rightly fear a toppled or weakened Pakistani government may lose control of its nuclear weapons. However, again, to follow the logic of our stated goals we should garrison Pakistan, not Afghanistan. More so, the September 11th attacks, as well as the Madrid and London bombings, were primarily planned and organized in Western Europe; a point that highlights the threat is not one tied to traditional geographic or political boundaries. Finally, if our concern is for a failed state crippled by corruption and poverty and under assault from criminal and drug lords, then if we bear our military and financial contributions to Afghanistan, we must reevaluate and increase our commitment to and involvement in Mexico.

“Eight years into war, no nation has ever known a more dedicated, well trained, experienced and disciplined military as the U.S. Armed Forces. I do not believe any military force has ever been tasked with such a complex, opaque and Sisyphean mission as the U.S. military has received in Afghanistan. …

“’We are spending ourselves into oblivion’ a very talented and intelligent commander, one of America’s best, briefs every visitor, staff delegation and senior officer. We are mortgaging our Nation’s economy on a war, which, even with increased commitment, will remain a draw for years to come. Success and victory, whatever they may be, will be realized not in years, after billions more spent, but in decades and generations. The United States does not enjoy a national treasury for such success and victory. …

“Thousands of our men and women have returned home with physical and mental wounds, some that will never heal or will only worsen with time. The dead return only in bodily form to be received by families who must be reassured their dead have sacrificed for a purpose worthy of futures lost, love vanished, and promised dreams unkept. I have lost confidence such assurances can anymore be made. As such, I submit my resignation.”

Will Mr. Hoh’s highly regarded experience, sensitivity and judgment reach the attention of millions of Americans? That will depend on whether President Obama meets with him, whether Congressional committees will provide a hearing for him and others of similar persuasion, and whether the mass media will suspend their dittoheading and trivia long enough to report these views, so that we the people can deliberate better about avoiding a devastating, worsening quagmire replete with serial tragedies over there and boomerangs back here.
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#2 User is offline   cc la femme Icon

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 08:26 PM

Good find Capt'n - this major news story was NOT carried by the BO press

This guy makes a lot of sense, has direct experiene and the moxy to tell BO & his gang to FO

He gives the reality of the Afgan story - it is a no win
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#3 User is offline   Kaylee 7 Icon

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 08:30 PM

View Postcc la femme, on 03 November 2009 - 09:26 PM, said:

Good find Capt'n - this major news story was NOT carried by the BO press

This guy makes a lot of sense, has direct experiene and the moxy to tell BO & his gang to FO

He gives the reality of the Afgan story - it is a no win


I agree. Good for this guy, he's figured out what American leaders refuse to acknowledge. Afghanistan is Vietnam part 2.
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#4 User is offline   Pat Icon

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 09:12 PM

That's a new definition of the word "stunning"
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#5 User is offline   Kaylee 7 Icon

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 09:25 PM

View PostPat, on 03 November 2009 - 10:12 PM, said:

That's a new definition of the word "stunning"


I for one am stunned that the crazies on DV are finally admitting that the war in Afghanistan is worthless and that we should pull out like a Christian on prom night.

This post has been edited by Kaylee 7: 03 November 2009 - 09:26 PM

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#6 User is offline   cc la femme Icon

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 09:50 PM

View PostKaylee 7, on 03 November 2009 - 09:25 PM, said:

I for one am stunned that the crazies on DV are finally admitting that the war in Afghanistan is worthless and that we should pull out like a Christian on prom night.

Please don't talk about my friend Pat like that. I have no idea of her feelings on Afgan.

Now, my friends are thinkers,and have been against it for years now. You see dear, NO islamic state will or can run within democracy. No one can bring Afgan several centuries ahead.

Even Iraq, centuries ahead of Afgan, cannot and will not be run as a democracy for 1 month after the cops leave. They are just not up to it. All we did was change it from a Sunni dictatorship to a Sh'ia religious dictatorship like Iran and allied close with Iran. Whoopy frkn dooo. Brrrrrillliant move.

you see, Bush was wrong on Iraq, and right on Afgan all along. He figured Iraq was up to democracy (daid wrong) and figured Afgan was not (daid right). That is why he slowed things down in Afgan, as he knew there was no win there. I'm not sure if BO's motive is wrong, or if it ties into protecting Pakistan and / or its nukes. We shall see soon.

This guy who bailed out on BO's sinking ship is bright and also knows the beast within Afgan. The Pashtun tribes will always lead. There is no win, there is only return to as it was before. The fundies ALWAYS rule.

Oh, and you do not know people as well as you like to think you do. Stereotyping works for your lib & consrv pre-programmed robots. However, some of us actually assess situations as they are and formulate opinions logically and historically according to what is best and / or predictable, a concept that is prolly hard for most to relate to. Posted Image
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#7 User is offline   cc la femme Icon

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 09:23 AM

CNN - A Today Example in Point:


Kabul, Afghanistan (CNN)
-- Five British soldiers were killed and six others were wounded when an Afghan National Police officer opened fire on them, military officials said Wednesday.

The attack happened Tuesday afternoon in the Nad-e'Ali District of Afghanistan's southern Helmand province, Britain's Ministry of Defence said Wednesday. All the soldiers died of gunshot wounds sustained in the attack.

Initial reports show that the Afghan policeman initiated the fire on the soldiers, a ministry spokesman told CNN


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#8 User is offline   Pat Icon

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 09:41 AM

Just another mess Obama is trying to clean up after the eight year reign of the dumbest president in US history.
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Posted 04 November 2009 - 10:10 AM

View PostPat, on 04 November 2009 - 09:41 AM, said:

Just another mess Obama is trying to clean up after the eight year reign of the dumbest president in US history.

I will agree that Bush was dumb and left some degree of mess.

However, now, someone even dumber could not learn the obvious mistake of Bush to stay there. In March, "even dumber" proceeded to repeat Bush's initial mistake and in fact componded it.

To err badly is dumb - to repeat an obvious error is as dumb as it gets.

You guys constant Bushisms fall flat. We all know he was a fk up - Current guy is rapidly outdoing him at dumb at a blinding rate, and all on his own.

He cannot blame Bush for all the mistakes he makes ever day lately. Beefing up in Afgan, while only one of his dumbs, is a glaring example of how he can fk up all on his own.
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Posted 04 November 2009 - 10:30 AM

View Postcc la femme, on 03 November 2009 - 09:50 PM, said:

Please don't talk about my friend Pat like that. I have no idea of her feelings on Afgan.

Now, my friends are thinkers,and have been against it for years now. You see dear, NO islamic state will or can run within democracy. No one can bring Afgan several centuries ahead.

Even Iraq, centuries ahead of Afgan, cannot and will not be run as a democracy for 1 month after the cops leave. They are just not up to it. All we did was change it from a Sunni dictatorship to a Sh'ia religious dictatorship like Iran and allied close with Iran. Whoopy frkn dooo. Brrrrrillliant move.


Ya, but usually, when a country invades your country, and puts a puppet in power, you're most likely not gonna support that new government.
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#11 User is offline   Qwerty Icon

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 03:16 PM

I can't have too much faith in this article or the sources, but it has happened before and I have been suspicious of the possibility. Does Obama want the US to stay in Afghanistan? Everybody's agreeing that it's unwinnable. The American and NATO countries' populace don't want to be there, and neither do the Afghanis. Yet if Obama were to pull the troops out, he would be hammered. He's already being hammered even though he has been sending more soldiers.

Quote

Ellsberg: Leaked Pentagon Papers from Vietnam give clues to why Obama will most likely grant military requests to send more troops to Afghanistan.

Paul Jay, senior producer of The Real News Network, interviewed former military analyst and Pentagon whistle-blower Daniel Ellsberg about the common thread between the conflict in Afghanistan and the war in Vietnam.

Like Vietnam, Ellsberg said "no victory lies ahead [for the US] in Afghanistan" and President Barack Obama knows it.

Still, Ellsberg believes Obama will "go against his own instincts as to what's best for the country and do what's best for him and his administration and his party in the short run facing elections, which is to avoid a military revolt."

That means the president will likely authorize a sizable increase of US forces in the region, Ellsberg said, because Obama fears that top US military commanders will stage a revolt if he rejects their requests for additional soldiers.

Ellsberg predicted that Obama will cave in to Gen. Stanley McCrystal's request for as many as 40,000 US troops in order to, "prevent his military from making a political case to his public and to the Congress that he has been weak, unmanly, indecisive, and weak on terrorism, and has endangered American troops."

The Pentagon Papers, which Ellberg leaked to The New York Times in 1971, made public the decision-making details behind the Vietnam War. Ellsberg chose to leak the highly-sensitive papers because they revealed that the government was continuing the Vietnam War despite knowing it would not likely be won.

As revealed in the Pentagon Papers, Ellsberg said that President Lyndon B. Johnson chose to go along with increasing US troops in Vietnam: "To keep the military from resigning and going public with complaints that he had abandoned a winnable war."

President Obama's decision to shield himself from a military revolt, as Johnson chose to do in 1965, will take place at the expense of US troops and Afghani civilians, said Ellsberg.

"Many Americans, many Afghans will die in order to protect the president from that kind of blame," Ellsberg said.

Ellsberg, who used to write about what is now known as counterinsurgency theory, critiqued General McChrystal's approach to Afghanistan. Sending more troops to Afghanistan, said Ellsberg, will only increase the Taliban's strength. Ellsberg said:

"The more troops we put in Vietnam, the more Vietcong were recruited. And, the more troops we put in Afghanistan, the curve shows very clearly from 2005 on, the Taliban has come back having been, as you say, despised and reviled by most of the country. How can it be that they get the degree of support that they do now? One reason only: the number of troops, of US troops that they are fighting."

http://www.truthout.org/1102096

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#12 User is offline   shinta chan Icon

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 04:31 PM

So many Canadians are worried about the US in a war with Afghanistan why? And why do US citizens express their grief on a Vancouver web site?
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