Vancouver Forum: Tory MP close to having support to kill gun registry

Toronto Police Chief Bill Blair used the seizure of a huge haul of restricted weapons to defend the beleaguered registry. "We believe that the gun registry provides police services across this country with the information they need, first of all to help us keep communities safe, and also to keep police officers safe," he told a news conference.

wtf they are not getting assult rifles or hi capcity handguns here in canada they get them smuggled in from the states where our registry mean shite and is a waste of money like a drug dealing gang member is going to go register his AK-47 before he goes and whacks a guy

High capacity weapons and mags have been banned in the states since 1994. In other words they are just as illegal here as they are in Canada. This just more proof that gun restrictions do very little to reduce the availability of weapons to criminals and do nothing to reduce crime.

gun restrictions reduce crime in europe and japan and other places

gun restrictions reduce crime in europe and japan and other places

OTTAWA –A long-running effort by the Conservatives to kill the long-gun registry has passed an important hurdle in the House of Commons, with a majority voting for the first time in 14 years to study a bill to repeal it.

MPs voted 164-137 to give "second reading" — or "approval-in-principle" - to a private member's bill sponsored by MP Candice Hoeppner (Portage-Lisgar) that calls for the repeal of legal requirements to register long-barrelled rifles and shotguns.

12 NDP members, eight Liberals, and one independent MP voted with the 143 Conservatives.

The stage was set for the vote to pass hours earlier when Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff declared the current long-gun registry faces a crisis of "legitimacy" in rural Canada and needs to be overhauled.

Ignatieff said his caucus supports the "principle of gun control," and he personally believes it should include long guns. But he said the issue has divided urban and rural Canadians, and faces "resistance" in rural Canada.

He said his caucus is working on proposals to bridge that gap. In French, he suggested it could include "decriminalizing" the registration system for long guns.

Ignatieff said any Liberal changes would start with a "simple principle: we are for a firearms registration system that includes all firearms, but there is a problem of resistance in rural areas. It could be possible to decriminalize but to maintain a firearms registration system for long guns."

It was a Liberal government that enacted changes to the Criminal Code of Canada — in the wake of the 1989 Montreal massacre — and required Canadians to register their firearms including long-barrelled hunting rifles or shotguns.

Since 2006, the federal Conservatives brought in successive "amnesties" under the law and proposed government legislation to kill the registry — which has never been brought to a vote.

Instead it supported a private member's bill knowing votes on those are "freer" than on government bills.

Ignatieff and NDP leader Jack Layton's decisions to allow free votes by their caucus ensured Hoeppner's bill won the necessary votes to pass.

"The fundamental issue is to make sure we get a system of gun control which works both for rural Canada and for urban Canada," Ignatieff said.

"We want to listen to victims groups, sports hunters, legitimate gun owners to find a way to rebuild legitimacy for the gun registry in rural Canada. That's not a thing you can do overnight."

Ignatieff downplayed the impact of a Commons vote to give "second reading" to a private member's bill to repeal the registry.

"It's not the end of the firearms registration system tonight. It's only the beginning of a parliamentary process that will be pursued in committee and in the senate."

Meanwhile, the Conservative government continues to keep the latest report on the national firearms registry under wraps, even as MPs prepare to hold the vote on its future.

RCMP Commissioner William Elliott, who serves as the Commissioner of Firearms responsible for the gun registry, submitted the 2008 report to the federal government, but Peter Van Loan, the minister of public safety, has so far declined to table the report publicly in Parliament.

Van Loan told the Commons the report would be tabled eventually but that Canadians don't need "another report" to know the long gun registry "is very efficient at harassing law-abiding outdoor enthusiasts and farmers, and wasting money while being terribly inefficient at combating crime."

The vote late Wednesday now sends the bill to a committee for more study. It could die in committee, or be amended as long as changes adhere to the spirit of the bill. But generally, a bill that passes "second reading" may not be completely re-written to contradict its original intent.

The long-gun registry's supporters and its critics see the vote as an important step towards the registry's demise.

Quebec public safety minister Jacques Dupuis added his voice to those urging the federal Conservatives to maintain the registry, sending a letter directly to Van Loan.

After a heavy lobbying effort — including a Conservative-backed radio ad campaign targeting vulnerable Opposition ridings - Hoeppner (Portage-Lisgar) was confident she would get at least eight NDP and Liberal MPs to vote to get rid of the law.

Ignatieff and Layton personally opposed the bill, but cited their respective parties' "tradition" of free votes on private members' business.

Under Hoeppner's bill, longstanding controls on restricted handguns and prohibited weapons would remain, as would requirements that gun owners hold a valid license.

Hoeppner's bill doesn't specifically say that all the current data held on long-guns should be destroyed, but the government bill that proposed repealing the registry, currently languishing on the Senate's back-burner, does. And Hoeppner agrees that's what should happen.

In its 2007 report, the RCMP — which took over administration of the firearms centre in 2006 — states that the online firearms registry is "key to the safety of both police offers and the public, providing police with immediate access to the information they require in their investigations and operations."

The registry contains 11 years worth of data on 1.8 million licensed gun owners and 7.3 million firearms, including long-barrelled guns like hunting rifles and shotguns, as well as restricted handguns and prohibited weapons.

Information published on the RCMP's website rounds up the number of firearms, saying "there are an estimated 7.4 million firearms in Canada, about 1.2 million of which are restricted firearms (mostly handguns)."

However much of the other statistical information on the website related to firearms and violent crime rates or homicide is not up-to-date, but rather pre-dates the firearm registration regulations in Canada in 1998.

The RCMP reported that 2007 saw "better turnaround times" for licences and registrations, growing number of police queries of the firearms registry, and the use of new software that streamlined "production of notices to clients, court affidavits and other official documents."

"Overall, the Canadian Firearms Program was strengthened and woven more closely into the RCMP's National Police Services during 2007. It provided better service to law enforcement organizations, better service to licensing and registration clients, and was an important contributor to the RCMP's overall goal of 'safe homes, safe communities.' The RCMP is confident that 2008 will see continued progress in the priority areas," the report says.

It's not known what overview the 2008 report gives of the system and its operations.

Rejoice. Perhaps that money can be redirected to maybe keeping another 1/2 dozen beds in hospitals open and actually saving lives.

Belief in registeries is one of the silly things that the liberal folks like to pretend is "fighting crime".